Gender and Space in the Social Dynamic (GaSS’d)
This note is designed to serve as a simple ‘thinking tool’, to remind that there are two ways of visualizing the dynamic behaviour of matter (the dynamics of form and organization) and two ways of understanding the role of space in these dynamics (participating and non-participating), yielding three different ways to contemplate the meaning of any dynamic. The choices we make impact our sense of ‘self’ and ‘society’ and shape our manner of engaging with/in the world dynamic.
1. Attraction and Repulsion (‘gender relations’ in emergent form/organization).
Imagine a local cell-like form that is bounded on all sides; e.g. an amoeba-like form, and imagine a crowded collection of these forms, each of them pushing their neighbours and being pushed by their neighbours. Their form and the form of the organization or collective movement will be due to a (four-part) combination of (1) how each individual cell pushes on its neighbours and puts a dent in their form (deforms the others as in the masculine-assertive sense) and (2) how collections of cells push on their neighbour cells and forcibly push flow channels (intrusions) within the overall collective, and (3) how each individual cell accommodates the pushing of its neighbours (deforms itself as in the female-receptive sense), and (4) how collections of cells receptively accommodate and open up flow channels within the overall collective.
The dynamic form and organization of the cells in this four-part view ‘comes to mind’ in the manner of, for example, a European war where the cell boundaries correspond to the country boundaries and where the cells have a ‘colonizing’ motivation whereby they are attracted by and seek to possess portions of their neighbours and to repulse attempts by their neighbours to possess portions of them.
2. Reciprocal Disposition (emergent form/organization as spatial transformation)
In the above visualizing of attraction and repulsion within a collection of local cells, ‘space’ is a non-participant. As Einstein and others have pointed out; “Space is a participant in physical phenomena”.
Imagine this time, that the cells are ‘tiling’ the surface of a sphere, in which case when cells ‘push out’, their pushing ‘back-reflects’ on themselves due to what Einstein calls ‘reciprocal disposition’ (e.g. see Einstein’s essay ‘Geometry and Experience’).
In the first view where space is not a participant, the pushing and accommodating is understood in terms of ‘competition’ where the pushing of the strongest will prevail and be accommodated by the rest.
In this second view where space IS a participant, the pushing and accommodating is back-reflected on the cells in a non-simple manner given by Mach’s principle of the relativity of space and matter; “The dynamics of the habitat condition the dynamics of the inhabitants at the same time as the dynamics of the inhabitants are conditioning the dynamics of the habitat.”
3. The precedence of nonlocal over local
The above and presently discussed ‘architecture’ of dynamics ‘complexifies’ our understanding of dynamics, a complexification that exposes the fact that our prior (space as a non-participant) understanding was a case of ‘choosing not that which is most true but that which is most easy’ (Kepler, speaking of how science avoids the complexity inherent in nature, in its explanations of physical phenomena, in ‘Harmonies of the World).
In the following diagram, we can see that we have a choice of observing the movement of two-dimensional cells over a surface area as in ‘continental drift’, and/or in the more ‘complex’ terms where the surface dynamics are an expression of deeper, non-superficially visible fluid undercurrents.
The topic of this discussion is ‘dynamics’ and how we ‘perceive’ dynamics.
Dynamics are fundamental to our understanding. Our life experience is ‘inherently dynamic’. ‘Stasis’ as in the notion of the local object which is stationary and unchanging is ‘idealization’ that does not exist anywhere in the natural world.
Summary: We have more ways than one to understand ‘our own dynamics’ and ‘the dynamics of others’.
1. We can imagine dynamics to be one-sided and male (with space as a non-participant) in which case the individual is deemed fully responsible for the results of his actions which ‘play out in time’. This ‘male’ view of dynamics is impossible in ‘reality’ but it is employed extensively in Western thinking. We use it to establish ‘credit’ and ‘blame’ for emergent ‘results’. This is the legacy of Aristotelian notion of ‘purpose’ (‘intrinsic final cause’) as in the ‘acorn-to-oak-tree’ dynamic where we conceive of the encoded knowledge and purpose encapsulated within the acorn, pushing out of itself (self-actualizing) to produce its final form in such a manner that it is deemed fully and solely responsible for this result. This simplistic (“not that which is most true but that which is most easy”) view of dynamics is used as the foundation for ‘genetics’ and for ‘Darwin’s theory’ and dominates in western architecture/design of organization (government and commercial enterprise)..
2. We can imagine dynamics to be two-sided and androgynous (with space as a non-participant) so that there will always be ambiguity as to the respective ‘male’ and ‘female’ combination; i.e. the dynamic is assumed to be one dynamic of an androgynous character. This understanding we use when we observe a tree moving in the wind or a flag flapping in the breeze. There is no ‘time’ separation in this view, between the re-forming of the tree-boughs and the re-forming of the airflow, since the one is simultaneously reciprocal to the other. This leads us to complexify our understanding of dynamics to the point of seeing dynamics as geometric transformation; e.g. if we start with a simple dynamic view where Lulu is leaving work and heading for the party, we have two entities; ‘Lulu’ and ‘the party’ which are converging. But the party is not the same party that Lulu was moving towards when Lulu is included in it, and work is not the same ‘work’ when Lulu has been removed from it. That is, movement of things can also be understood as the transformation of the relational geometry of space where intrusion (male) and accommodation (female) are flip sides of the same coin (the transformation of the geometry of space). This is still ‘one step short’ of including space as a participant in dynamic phenomena.
3. We can understand dynamics in terms wherein space is a participant as is characteristic of ‘flow’ – the worldview in a Heraclitean philosophy; i.e. the male-assertive fountaining-forth is in conjugate relation with the here-receptive-there-resistive accommodating of the fluid medium. There are not ‘two dynamics’ going on in this view, but one dynamic which we can interpret as two. For example, within a community, there is generally a mixture of ‘pushy’ and ‘accommodating people. The pushy ones tend to have an ‘ego’ that gives full credit to themselves for ‘the results’ that ‘they achieve’ and regards their accommodating brethren as ‘weak’ and ‘inferior performers’ as trees that are whipped about by the wind. This is the ‘social Darwinist’ view that gives zero credit to the female accommodative aspect and sees all results as if they derived from male competition. This is at the origin of the feminist complaint; ‘my grandfather was a famous engineer, my grandmother had no name’. But the big step in ‘complexification’ of our view of dynamics (bringing our understanding closer still to the reality of our experience) is when we ‘let go’ of the notion of the persisting identity of ‘local objects’ and acknowledge that they are transient ‘forms’ that gather in the flow. As Emerson says, all material objects are essentially like the cataract; i.e. there is a persisting form there even though it derives purely from flow. Material objects that gather and are re-gathered in the flow are not only ‘inhabited’ by the dynamic of the flow-medium but are created by it. The flow is a ‘holodynamic’ or ‘holoflux’ in which material objects are flow-forms that are continually being gathered and re-gathered.
The above descriptions of dynamics give alternative ‘understandings’ that we can use when and where we choose to. Which ones dominate (which we make ‘foundational’ in our common understanding) are the stuff that different ‘cultures’ are made from.
For example, our western culture, which is identified by its manner of organizing (how an individual from any culture organizes himself alone in the wilderness tends to launder out the differences in culture), opts for the simplest view of dynamics as in (1.) where the male cause-and-effect is seen to be responsible for all dynamics of form and organization (this corresponds, in a religious view, to a monotheist male God). The result is that credit is attributed to particular ‘causal agents’ for ‘good results’ and blame is attributed to particular ‘causal agents’ for ‘bad results’; i.e. ‘everything’ is seen in terms of the ‘result’ of some or other ‘causal agent action’.
In Victor Hugo’s classic ‘Les Miserables’ the over-simplicity of this view of dynamics is caricatured by Jean Valjean’s going to jail for nineteen years for stealing a loaf of bread (because he reached a point where he could no longer bear to hear starving children crying with hunger). Technically speaking, (‘TECHNICALLY’ in the sense of the simplest view of dynamics), Jean Valjean was the causal agent responsible for the criminal act of theft from the bakery. Since space is not a participant in this simple view of dynamics, the argument could not be used that monopoly control over the accommodating properties of space infused stress into the overall matter-space system in the manner of earthquake/avalanche phenomena, to the point where movement emerged in the service of relieving stress (in social dynamics terms, a kind of ‘Robin Hood’ effect).
Everybody knows that such a view of dynamics is far more realistic than is the simple one-sided male-cause-and-effect view which goes hand-in-hand with the notion of ‘good’ and ‘evil’ results. The ‘good’ and ‘evil’ view associates with Aristotelian ‘intrinsic final cause’ or ‘purposive systems’ (acorn-to-oak-tree); i.e. in this ‘most easy but not most true’ mental modeling, the ‘first cause’ origin of all human dynamics derives from the interior of the individual, from his ‘internal purpose’. In this view, there is no reason for looking any further once the ‘guilty’ causal agent has been identified. However, in the more complex (more realistic) view of dynamics where space is a participant, tensions can develop and build in space leading to nonlocal sourcing of material dynamics as in earthquake/avalanche/hurricane etc. dynamic phenomena.
Rejection of nonlocal originating of dynamics is the standard response from staunch members of the western culture because they have anchored their views and understanding to ‘western biology’ and ‘western psychology’ which have been developed using the (1.) view of dynamics.
Those people whose political views are described as ‘liberal’ are described as having fuzzy views because of their touchy-feely temperaments. They would let Jean Valjean off the hook OUT OF THEIR COMPASSION for him and for the children. But they would leave the justice system as it is, built on an over-simplistic understanding of dynamics. The rich liberals would still believe that they were fully, causally responsible for the achievement of affluence, but that it was ‘right’ to be generous and forgiving to others who were ‘less gifted’ or ‘less fortunate’.
In other words, ‘liberals’ are most often ‘soft-hearted’ versions of ‘conservatives’, both of these ‘temperaments’ believing in the simple model of dynamics built into the political system where governance via a central regulatory authority is based on ‘control over behaviour understood as male cause-and-effect’. Monopoly control over land (the common space that is a participant in dynamics) is protected by law and the justice system views land as ‘one of the factors of production’ along with capital, labour and entrepreneurship. The right to own land is a privilege granted by the sovereign state to individual citizens and to corporations.
The ‘earthquake/avalanche’ dynamics which are just as viable in the social dynamics realm as in any other realm in the world dynamic, while they are excluded from consideration in the western culture’s approach to organization, are in fact provoked by forms of organization committed to the monopoly acquisition and control of land, the ethic that was foundational in the colonization that was launched by European nations. The colonization dynamic is alive and well in the modern world dynamic but is no longer ‘overt’, not since Hitler’s overt ‘lebensraum’ initiative was suppressed, and is now infused into the ‘global economy’ where corporations seek monopoly control of ‘the factors of production’ including land. ‘Cornering the land’ has transitioned to ‘cornering the market’.
The western culture, by refusing to review and revise the understanding of dynamics that have been built into western systems of organization (political and commercial), is mired down trying to sort things out via a fuzzy mix of ‘good’ and ‘evil’ behaviour moderated by equally fuzzy notions of ‘compassion’ and ‘forgiveness’.
It will say that ‘Jean Valjean’ was ‘wrong’ to steal the loaf of bread, and it will say that change in the social dynamic should be accomplished through ‘democratic process’. But meanwhile, the justice system NOT ONLY entirely ignores the manipulative control of land/space that forces the hungry, ‘un-landed’ masses into sweat-shop (legitimized slave-) labour force, but supports the society in applauding, rewarding and respecting those who achieve massive manipulative control of land/space, as is the Darwinian custom, itself based on an over-simple view of dynamics.
In the unsimplified view of dynamics (3.), ‘local causal agency’ and ‘local purposive systems’ are no longer understood as the ‘first cause’ originating shapers of dynamic form and organization. Instead, the originating shaping influence of form and organization is understood as ‘nonlocal’ and the individual is understood to ‘have a dynamic’ that is inherently ‘relative’ to the dynamics of space, as in the cell-to-space relationship in the figure above.
We understand dynamics in this way when we are driving friendly in the flow of the busy freeway; i.e. like Lulu going to a party, ‘we’ and ‘where we are going’ are ‘the same place/space’ and what is happening is ‘transformation’ of the space we and they share inclusion in. That is, the transformation of space is the bigger view of dynamics, … bigger than the assertive/purposeful actions of a collection of local, independently existing material systems/organisms, notionally equipped with their own locally-originating internal purpose directed behaviours. When we move into the ‘hole’ that opens up for us (thanks to the collective we are included in who are all moving under one another’s simultaneous mutual influence), we are opening up a hole for someone else to move into. Actually, the hole is not a local thing, but rather the medium of space in which we are included. In this less simple view of dynamics, the opening of spatial possibility-to-move is conjugate to our assertive intrusion into it. And, if we observe the flow of traffic for, say, one hundred years, several generations of drivers will have come and gone even though the flow of traffic has persisted; i.e. the nonlocal shaping influence prevails over the influence of the ‘local’ flow-features.
Where does ‘the mind’ fit into all of this?
Thoughts move in our conscious pursuit of understanding. We could therefore develop an architectural understanding of the ‘dynamics of thought’ which would have to reconcile with our general understanding of dynamics. In fact, we could invoke the same architecture for the dynamics of thought as in above dynamics architecture.
1. We can imagine the dynamics of thought to be one-sided and male (with space as non-participating ‘empty silence’) in which case the individual is deemed fully responsible for the results of his thoughts which ‘play out in time’. This ‘male’ view of thought-dynamics is the popular view in our Western culture. We use it to establish ‘credit’ and ‘blame’ for emergent ‘results’; i.e. we speak about ‘positive thinking’ and ‘negative thinking’ and some consider it sinful to ‘think bad thoughts’. This is the legacy of Aristotelian notion of ‘intention/purpose’ (‘intrinsic final cause’) as in the ‘acorn-to-oak-tree’ thought-dynamic whereby the thought pushes forth out of itself. Just as our physical self was fingered as the ‘causal agent’ in the case of physical dynamics, we would look for the physical seat where ‘thought originates’ in this view of thought dynamics, and the brain would appear to be the ‘likely candidate’.
2. We can imagine the dynamics of thought, as in ‘communicating our thoughts’, to be two-sided and androgynous (with space as a non-participant). This is the transmitter-receiver view of thought, so that there will always be ambiguity as to the respective ‘male’ and ‘female’ combination (is the thought that I heard the same as the thought you intended?); i.e. the dynamic is assumed to be one dynamic of an androgynous character. This understanding we use when we dialogue. There is no ‘time’ separation between transmission and reception in this view, since one is simultaneously reciprocal to the other. ‘Thought’ in this view of thought dynamics, rather than being a thought-object that is born inside of us and communicated to others as a kind of self-contained packet of information, is born at the confluence of transmission and reception. ‘Words’ are like this; i.e. a word can have no meaning unless it is understood by at least two people at the same time. In this second level of thought-dynamics, a word heading off to join other words can be like Lulu heading for the party. The party when it is joined by Lulu is an entirely different party than it was prior to Lulu’s arrival.. The new word does not simply embellish what is already there, it entirely transforms it. That is, movement of thoughts can also be understood as the transformation of the relational geometry of thought where transmission (male) and reception (female) are flip sides of the same coin (the transformation of the relational geometry of thought). This is still ‘one step short’ of including silence as a participant in the dynamics of thought.
3. We can understand the dynamics of thought in terms wherein silence is a participant so that thought can be understood as ‘flow’. The male-assertive transmitting of thought is in conjugate relation with the female-receptive accommodating of thought, as within a fluid-dynamic. There are not ‘two thought-dynamics’ going on in this view, but one thought dynamic which we can interpret as two. For example, within the understanding of a conscious collective, there is generally a mixture of ‘talkers’ and ‘listeners’. The ‘talkers’ tend to have an ‘ego’ that gives full credit to themselves for ‘the thoughts that they are propagating’, and they regard their listening brethren as passive putty in their hands, as trees that are whipped about and given shape by their windy rhetoric. This is the ‘Darwinist’ view of thought dynamics that gives zero credit to the female receptive aspect sees all resulting ‘thought-shaping’ as if it derived from the competition amongst male thought dynamics (the ‘meme’ architecture for thought dynamics). But the big step in ‘complexification’ of our view of thought dynamics (bringing our understanding closer still to the reality of our thinking experience) is when we ‘let go’ of the notion of the persisting identity of ‘local thought objects’ and acknowledge that they are transient ‘forms’ that gather in the flow. As Vygotsky says in ‘Thought and Language’, all non-spontaneous (scientific) thought-objects (concepts) are essentially like the cataract; i.e. there is a persisting form there even though it derives purely from the thought-flow. Local thought-objects (aka ‘concepts’) that gather and are re-gathered in the flow are not only ‘inhabited’ by the dynamic thought-flow but are created by it. Thought-flow is holoflux in which local thought-objects are thought-flow-forms that are continually being gathered and re-gathered. Thought context and thought content are reciprocal to one another in the sense as given by Mach’s principle; “The dynamics of context condition the dynamics of content at the same time as the dynamics of content are conditioning the dynamics of context.”
Descartes’ ‘Cogito ergo sum’ can be seen to fall in the Aristotelian “not that which is most true but that which is most easy” architecture of thought, wherein thought pushes forth out of itself, as in the ‘acorn-to-oak-tree’ (intrinsic final cause) rendering. The physical seat of the fountainhead of thought is thus ‘looked for’ after one starts with this conclusion (cogito ergo sum) and works backwards to find the source. The ‘brain’ is thus identified as the sourcing fountainhead. This is a bit like identifying the penis and testicles as being responsible for human pregnancy/progeny. It is ‘most easy’ rather than ‘most true’ because ‘the thought-origination buck starts and stops here’ with the ‘brain’.
The further complexification of thought dynamics, as in the case of the architecture of dynamics in general, leads one to the ‘flow’ view wherein ‘elements of thought’ are flow-features that have a conjugate context-content dynamic relation. This recalls Schroedinger’s ‘one mind’ view wherein consciousness or ‘the field of thought’ is a dynamic unity (i.e. ‘consciousness is characteristic of the world-dynamic’).
This ‘Gender and Space in the Social Dynamic’ note can serve as a relatively simple ‘template’ for remembering the various ways in which physical dynamics and thought dynamics can be DIFFERENTLY understood. The acronym GaSSd could be useful in bringing the template back to mind; i.e. the ‘gender’ aspect pertains to ‘assertive’ and ‘accommodative’ dynamics and to ‘transmissive’ and ‘receptive’ thought dynamics. The gender relations can be thought of as (a) opposing and interacting in time, and (b) in simultaneous conjugate [assertive-accommodative] relation. The big step in complexification of the dynamics architecture (i.e. in backing off from ‘choosing not that which is most true but that which is most easy’), however, comes when we understand the fluid (energy) medium, ‘flow’ and ‘thought-flow’ to be in a natural precedence over the male and female object (thought-object) dynamics (asserted-and-accommodated, … transmitted-and-received).
One must take account of the fact that in our Western culture we have become addicted to the simplest of all of the architectures, the one-sided male causal agent originating view of dynamics, and to its counterpart in the domain of thought-dynamics; i.e. the one-sided male transmission of thoughts is understood as being responsible for the origination of established thought.
While this addiction is not going to go away ‘overnight’, the GaSSd template allows one to identify the origins of dysfunction in our society, as a result of our over-simplified understanding of dynamics.
* * * * *
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Hi Mr Ted
BINGO!
Damn you’re getting good at this. I am reduced to contesting only one word in your summary of 3.
where you say
*3. We can understand dynamics in terms wherein space is a participant is characteristic of ‘flow’*
I would substitute imagine for understand.
This is entirely attributable to:
*3. The precedence of nonlocal over local
Caught you. I caged that cat. The aboriginal Brain Fart! This is the “it is obvious that” which has no place (literally, no neurons) in bottom up/top down thinking (Aristotelean/Taoist Brain Fart.) This leads me to speculate on the bifurcated fart, IE sometime in pre-history The basic imprinting pattern changed from the ABF/TBF pattern which are two minds of the same brain to something different. Fascinating!
This is my take on the gang of 3 (occidental)
Consider “A centered’s thoughts are governed by his own truth, an idiot’s thoughts are governed by someone elses truth.” – el Loco Gringo (to Mr Geoff)
1.This is the stupidity you speak of. An idiot has no “me”. No inner voice that whispers “back off” when someone else tries to occupy “rent free space” in their mind. They become zombies, robots, hollow, golems pretending to be wise, clanking around in this meaningless ant warren of a society we inhabit. They are, in fact, without volition.
2. The centered, being pragmatic, understand and accept the ambiguity of the situation, pretending to be idiots, doing what ever it takes to survive but maintaining their individuation, however surreptitiously.
3.Then there are the nexialists, what Maslow called the transcendents. They understand and do not accept the ambiguity of the situation, and they’re going to do something about it. Their minds have not been hijacked.
This “difference” I attribute entirely to my having data you are not privy to; IE we have two cognitive minds.
Overall, very, very impressive analysis, a sidereal view of the ABF/TBF brainfart. Far superior to Plato.
I tried a different approach, I don’t know how many different ways I can say “it ain’t real” but here’s another.
http://timephreak.wordpress.com/
It’s not proofed yet.
Damn, I feel another post coming on.
walt
[…] Found Here> https://goodshare.org/wp/gender-and-space-in-the-social-dynamic/ […]
walt,
your models resonate with me, particularly with respect to the notions of the ABF (Aristotelian brain fart [reductionism]) and the TBF (Taoist brain fart [wholism]), in the sense that there are these ‘shortcuts’ in thinking that are not THE way to understand things but simply one way to ‘look at the world’. the brainfart is then to confuse the shortcut for ‘reality’. my terminology for this has been ‘to confuse idealization for reality’ (my usage has mainly referred to aristotelian ‘intrinsic final cause’ based logic, which imputes origination of form and orgranization-shaping influence to ‘local agency’ (as in ‘local external force’ and/or ‘local internally originating force’)).
i am meanwhile, not on the same page with this fundamental emphasis you seem to put on ‘the brain’. how the hell do we get from ourselves as inclusions in the universe to local objects with internal sensing and interpretation equipment?. our experience suggests we are included inertial substance which, when we experience accelerations, experience it relative to the universe, as is affirmed by our capacity for inertial guidance; i.e. the capacity of anything for inertial guidance, experiencing accelerations relative to a field (gravity) that is ‘everywhere at the same time’?
as schroedinger suggests, most of us have not developed brains, and thus to describe the world in a manner that depends on the brain is a kind of anthropomorphism. as schroedinger puts it;
“Sherrington says: “Man’s mind is a recent product of our planet’s side.” I agree, naturally. If the first word (man’s) were left out, I would not. It would seem queer, not to say ridiculous, to think that the contemplating, conscious mind that alone reflects the becoming of the world should have made its appearance only at some time in the course of this “becoming” should have appeared contingently, associated with the very special biological contraption which, in itself, quite obviously discharges the task of facilitating certain forms of life in maintaining themselves, thus favoring their preservation and propagation: forms of life that were latecomers and have been preceded by many others that maintained themselves without that particular contraption (a brain). Only a small fraction of them (if you count by species) have embarked on ‘getting themselves a brain.’ And before that happened, should it all have been a performance to empty stalls? Nay, may we call a world that nobody contemplates even that?”
the brain is ‘not it’. as you say, the brain or any other modeling concept is a ‘tunnel’ through which we can look at ourselves and the world, but as schroedinger says, the world does not depend on.man’s brain perceiving it.
the two videos you point to at Secret-1 Secret-2 absolutely reek of the Aristotelian brainfart. for example, the first one opens up with;
“The content of this film is not just a philosophical thought: it is a fact that is also proven by science today.”
give us a break!
next, the film says; “All the information that we have about the external world is conveyed to us by our five senses”
what is ‘INFORMATION’? … and ‘what are THE FIVE SENSES’?, … other than definitions we have already, by stealth, slipped into the foundations of the scientific ‘truth’ that is being expounded on in order to load our data with our preferred theory (petitio principii) so as to make our propositions ‘ring true’.
everyone who is an ‘acculturated western adult’ ‘knows’ what ‘information’ is (it is a concept), but it is not something found in nature, it is what an ‘information processor’ uses to make its interpretations and decisions. to claim that our five senses ‘gather information’ is to already impose an ‘information-processor’ model on ourselves.
this is bullshit. it is too small a model. even the systems sciences have withdrawn their support for the cybernetic system model of the human being. as a tunnel, its ok, but its too freakin narrow to go any distance.
the videos further say;
Quite simply, the bird, the shape of which we see, and the sound of which we hear, is nothing but the brain’s interpretation of electrical signals.
quite simply, the above proposition is absolute crap. the perpetrators of that crap have the gall, after claiming that the images of the world out there are artefacts of electrical dynamics, to use those same images to show us the structure of the fabricator of those artificial images; i.e. ‘the brain’ and then to point to the images and say, … see this brain here, well inside of it is this little space here (more images) where all those things purportedly outside the skull are electrically fabricated. what little space?, … all i see is images and you already told me that those images are nothing but electrical dynamics, that they are not ‘real’ but are simply ‘fabrications’. surely you would not use ‘fabrications’ in the foundations of your scientific truth claims, … or would you?
if we go back before ‘information’ we have ‘experience’ and ‘experience’ does not depend on ‘information’ any more than ‘acoustic experience’ (experience of inclusion in an energy field that is ‘everywhere at the same time’) depends on some nerve that connects the ear to the brain; “ If the nerve travelling from the nerve to the brain was disconnected, there would be no sound left.”
the sound of an aboriginal drum shakes my whole body at the same time. if we make the drum powerful enough, it can blow my body to pieces, … so much for ‘hearing’s’ dependence on a nerve between the ear and the brain, … as if ‘sound’ were something that is passively ‘out there’ and being ‘sampled’ by the human sense of hearing. sound/vibration permeates the universe and it rattles our bones, not just the little bones in the middle ear.
what am i to think of a scientific treatise on the nature of reality that claims that all those images ‘out there’ are nothing other than electrical signal based constructions ‘in here’, which then presents me with images that purport to expose this ‘reality’ of the existence of this image fabricating equipment, … asking me by way of this mobius-strip logic to accept this as ‘scientific fact’?
thanks but no thanks, … the ‘scientific fact’ claims in ‘secret 1’ and ‘secret 2’ are founded on anthropocentric hubris.
“The world we know of consists of what our eyes see, our ears hear, our noses smell, our tongues taste, and our hands feel. Man is dependent on only those five senses since birth. That is why he knows the external world only the way it is presented by these senses. “
where does the idea come from that ‘what man knows’ should be some kind of important benchmark? so what if man’s ‘information-based knowledge’ of the world is limited? man is capable of ‘experience’, ‘intuition’ and ‘understanding’, all of which transcend ‘information’ and ‘knowledge’. e.g. humans and other animals were having sex long before science came up with manuals full of information on it so that we might become ‘more knowledgeable’ about it (and in all likelihood ‘less spontaneous’ since acting ‘purposively’ out of knowledge is very different from letting our behaviours be orchestrated by the cultivating of resonances in the spatial dynamics we are included in).
in short, i am not impressed by the material in the secret 1, secret 2 videos. to me, they weaken rather than support your overall modeling/views (they are permeated with ABF).
what’s at play here, it seems to me, is the usefulness, or not, of giving the brain a dominant lead role in the modeling approach (i have the same problem with ‘the brain’ and ‘the individual mind’ as schroedinger did). i’m not saying that it doesn’t have merit, … i’m just concerned about the exposure whereby the listener tends to ‘take it literally’, as is being pushed in the secret 1 and secret 2 videos at ‘timephreak.wordpress.com’.
ted
Hi Mr Ted,
Yup, I’m not happy with what he says, but it does say “it ain’t real” in terms an idiot can understand. in finding fault which I agree with, he speaks of electrical signals. if you’re going to think of it in those terms, the brain is chemical, the “signals” are the effect, not the cause. I was thinking of stripping the sound off, and overlaying my own or just strip the sound off period.
as to how the hell do we get from ourselves as inclusions in the universe to local objects with internal sensing and interpretation equipment?
aye, there’s the rub. In my model, which is truth to me and speculation to you, there are 3 things in play. right mind, left mind and reality. We have two ways of looking at the world. through the tunnel of mainstream physics electrons/space describes “what’s out there”. a totally inadequate view. It is our interpretation of our perception of the electron and the perception of space yields the normal dual interpretation that space is the aggregate and accumulate sum of the electrons. But this is only our perception of “what’s out there”. the same is true for every tunnel I’ve looked through. So……you could say that our perception of ourself in relation to our perception of society is not SOCIETY. IE it is inside the skull. A little disambiguation is in order. So anytime a “dual” view of anything is presented, I wonder where the other element is. If you say intrinsic/extrinsic for instance, It seems to me like a three legged stool with one leg missing. If you intend extrinsic to mean right mind (our perception of what’s out there)., that leaves unanswered “what’s out there?” (that’s where I’m at) If you intend it to mean “what’s out there” that causes me to wonder what happened to your right mind. Genetic defect, amputation, or idiot? for whatever reason it ain’t working. we have to be looking through a tunnel unless we can fit the universe inside the skull, in which case we can make up our own rules. as to “one mind”, this is speculation only, which i tend to agree with, leaves unanswered the question “what is the quantum mind?” I have two hits on the molecule. not inconsistent. If true, there is a tiny bit of mind in each molecule which in the aggregate would make up the “one mind” so they are the same. BUT the one mind and the quantum mind are only inside the skull merely being our perception of “what’s out there” looked at through the mind tunnel. at this scale we would be about half way between the quantum mind and the one mind. The mind analyzes “what’s out there” in two modes which would fully explain everything I have seen. In this case the endpoints set by the tunnel are artifacts, and MAY not reflect reality. whether the universe is infinite or not depends on this and the best we can hope for is “the universe is infinite, as far as we can tell” I don’t think this “one mind” gives a shit what this semi-mini mind thinks about it. The brain itself perceives and interprets in exactly the same way, with the output determined by worldview. why should intrinsic/extrinsic be any different? so we’re back to the yin/yang wars.
Or…. an alternative interpretation, I could be full of shit, I am crazy, don’t you know?
walt,
as far as i can make out, your model works fine for the realm of ‘vision’. the ‘tunnel’ thing pertains to visual perception. we also have perception of inclusion, as in a warm bath or cold bath, if you were in the shower room and your shower turned cold while the next shower was still warm, you might move in to it. if that one turned cold and the one next to it was still warm, you might move into that shower. if the shower room was one hundred metres by one hundred metres, you might move in a snake-like trajectory within the shower room. your movement would be EXTRINSICALLY SHAPED. that is, your movements would be shaped by a NONLOCAL shaping influence.
of course, you could always say that ‘you have free will’ and that ‘you chose to move to where you did’ and that ‘your purpose was to keep warm’, … making it appear as if the snake-like trajectory was the result of your deliberate action, …. which in a smallish sense, ‘it is’. but you were not following a plan as you had no idea where your next warm shower was coming from.
so, here we have the ‘yin/yang’ wars or ‘extrinsic/intrinsic’ wars, but there is a difference to take note of.
here’s where the difference between ‘visual observation’ and ‘inclusional experience’ comes to the fore. the visual observer sees you moving around. he notices that you have a determined look in your eyes and he is certain that your movements are deliberate, that they represent ‘locally originating, purpose-directed behaviour’ on your part. if he asks you, without lying, you may say; ‘i went where i wanted to go’, ‘i followed my purpose’ (to keep warm), thus validating the intrinsic behaviour-shaping model.
but the fact is that your movement was not ‘destination-oriented’, it was ‘get out of the cold’ oriented which is not the same thing. you were trying to sustain balance/harmony with the dynamics of the space you were included in. the spatial dynamics were variable and they orchestrated your movements. no destination is involved. we cannot annotate the snake-shaped curve with points that we claim we intended to pass through.
in your visual model, what we see going on out there informs our movement thanks to our top-down and bottom-up cerebral processing units. but in this shower room example, we can be blindfolded and we will still move along the same snake-like trajectory because the spatial dynamic (the shape of the spatial thermal field we are included in) is orchestrating our movements. .
there is no cerebral ‘sense-interpret-decide-act’ going on here (we do not act out of ‘knowledge’; i.e. we are not ‘knowledge/purpose directed’), there is only the quest for extrinsic-intrinsic thermal energy balance.
the cerebral model, at least as presented in ‘secret 1’ and ‘secret 2’ is all about constructing a ‘world-view’ from visual impressions of what is going on ‘out there’, as far as the eye can see. this is a visual model which does not in itself acknowledge that we are capable of inclusional feeling wherein ‘extrinsic/intrinsic’ are one thing. this can shape our understanding of the world in a way that visual sensing (and the cerebral model) stops short of.
ted